Who was it that said "The natives are revolting"? Well this one certainly is!!
This is Nigel's blog for airing concerns about current issues on Alderney, and he invites you to comment too. Add your own thoughts be they humorous, insulting, satirical, critical or even full of praise. This is your chance to join the revolution!
Sports and community centre
The Alderney Sports and Community centre has sunk, the people have spoken, let's just move on
Thank God our States saw this big white elephant coming. Let the people who want this dead duck to fund it themselves, that way they get to keep ALL the profit!
From one Fatty to another. All a sports centre would do is help me (and every other tax payer) lose money, not weight, and unlike Lady Gaga I can't afford it. I rather spend my money on steaks and I don't mean to make a dress with! Also, your sign off name implies that you may need this facility more than me.
Nigel a place for locals to do sport is a human right like any other, its a great shame that you think that the Alderney native should not have the same entitlement as enjoyed by the Guernsey native, keep paying your taxes as its good you love paying for sports facilities for the kids of Guernsey natives while depriving your own Islands kids future.
Whoever you are... show me that you are a true blue?! For your information it costs the Bailiwick taxpayer between £800k-£1m a year to keep Beau Sejour open, why would we add to this already outrageous figure - you could always move to Guernsey!!!
I defo wanted a Sports Centre if at all possible but seeing how difficult it was to get going it never looked as if it was going to realise fruition which was a shame, I'm one that is used to going to a gym, now nearly 2 stone heavier I kind of feel one would be use!! :-)
When in UK I did find this here though http://archive.leisureprojects.net/greengyms.htm
A fraction of the cost to install and of course not earning any money for the island but for those of us that want to exercise it would help with health and well being, fundamental in todays lifestyle. It would also give visitors somewhere to physically enjoy our outdoor life. It was forwarded to Boyd Kelly, John Beaman, Bill Walden and Roy Burke to look at so hopefully now someone will pick up the baton to see if it is worthwhile. I got two lukewarm replies.
just checked my facts on this one-EVERY child and adult in Guernsey has access to a full size pool what you should be saying is are we second class citizens ?
Its prety obvious that Alderney cant afford a Beau sejour project but the fact that it losses £800 K per year(according to you ) and yet they keep it open, just goes to prove that other elected states values a healthy society as the quid pro quo is they save several million a year in health costs and just maybe a teenage boredom threshold and BTW they had several entrants in the Olympics would love to see an Alderney man at the Olympics. Did you know that the average cyclist lives 5 years longer than a non cyclist ? it can releive stress and reduce blood presure (Nigel you might want to look into this one)
Thanks for your advice Anonymous 10 August. Is this a male only pool? The way I prefer to relieve stress is writing this blog, and it doesn't cost the tax payer a penny! £800K per year is a well documented figure if you"d only care to lift your swimming goggles for a moment you would know where to look.
it would be nice to have a leisure centre, like many other things, but we cannot afford it. Neither the capital cost, nor the running cost. Not enough people would use it to make it affordable.
But the island offfers many othr forms of exercise, and lots of space. Anyonwe can lose weight by eating less, and taking brisk walks. I lost 3 stones doing just that 10 years ago, and it hasnt come back.
I think the answer to a leisure centre, which could be an attraction for visitors, would be to incorporate it within a Timeshare complex at Tourgis. With local and visitor membership available.
Another sensible idea would be to build an open-air pool alongside the beach side of the Quay.
Fed by the sea at full tide and then, as the tide goes out, the pool stays full.
Last time I looked there were opportunities for people to participate in just about every sport. To name but a few of those available - football, tennis, table tennis, cricket, keep fit classes, KFA, line dancing, golf, karate, badminton, squash and so on. All have no bearing on the tax payer and are all enjoyed by those who wish to play their particular game. People move here for the unique qualities offered by the place, not to expect a sports centre that will offer an oversized bath and a bowling alley in exchange for a massive financial headache.
On a side note - does the poster above own a car, or does he cycle everywhere?
no he does not and he does not play tennis either but every time he goes past the tennis club in the morning and see 30-50 local kids playing tennis he is grateful that some forward thinking individuals bothered to build it and every time he picks up the journal and sees the smiling faces of young Alderney boxers with their victories (often lads that might have strayed towards less constructive pursuits) he is grateful that Fred and Midge and Rosie and others put in the facilities and dedicated their time to make the club what it is, a furthur benefit to the Island we can go on to the football club, and golf club etc and its great contribution to Island life for the Youth if you really want this Island to remain a retirement home well lets keep focused on that -they have some of the best facilities in the Bailwick . but what about the future aspirations of the kids of this Island or are they just not as important. Boxing football etc are for the young mainly but swimming includes all age groups
Lack of a sports centre is not the reason that this island "remains a retirement home". Lack of future employment is the reason the kids leave at 16. Building a swimming pool will not keep them here no matter how much you think we need one. The theme for the Olympics was about inspiring the youth and every single person who gives their time on the island does their bit in helping to make a change with these kids and are to be applauded. Not producing an Olympic swimmer is not the end of the world. I get the impression that those who shouted loudest for a pool are quite possibly those with more than average spare time looking for ways to fill their days, but differing opinions are what lead to debate. You want a swimming pool - I don't. It's not because I'm being contrary, but because I believe investment would be better placed elsewhere.
You have to admire the sport centres campaigners, they sure have a lot of stamina (so why the need for a centre?) But just how will the half a dozen or so people who want to use it find it, this new undisclosed site? We natives have a canny way of finding things, this is like waving a red flag to a bull. I can already hear the jungle drums beating.
Thank you Mr Blood for your forthright email,i understand your point of view fully, but i think you are mistaken, to create employment you either need to increase the size of the public sector OR attract wealth creators(entrepreneurs) to the Island to create new businesses and new employment,and attract a new bunch of second home owners/settlers to the Island, i can tell you of several professional families that left the Island because of the lack of facilities for their kids in the harsh winter months,i am not saying this is the only reason why wealth creators/job creators are not moving here but it is one of them ,you build the infa structure and market it, they will come, and by the way if i am wrong in this i am sure the visitors kids and the whole local population will not complain at having a great facility.I also believe the naysayers regarding the center are just more vociferous and outspoken than the supporters, on a lighter note if a few people did not have too much time on their hands this blog would not exist!
How about boosting the private sector by sacking 95% of States workers, putting all States work out to tender, and have the local companies who pick up the work take on extra staff to enable them to honour the contract? At least the new employers will have some idea of how to motivate their newly acquired staff. Then, with less States employees we could do away with half the civil servants currently employed, freeing up more money. Might be a bit of a radical idea and I haven't spent more than 2 minutes thinking it through but I'm sure you get my gist.
The people of Alderney have spoken, the States have spoken, the banks have spoken, the Guernsey board of education have spoken, the Guernsey board of health have spoken. Just what part of NO don't you understand, Anonymous 14 August? Fund it yourselves or forget it.
Turn one of the churches into a sports centre. Be the right size no need for a swimming pool just a good gym a lot of people I see going to church would benefit from going there if it was a gym.
Actually, regular swimming prolongs the HEALTHY lifespan of the average person by 7 - 10 years. For community members no longer able to run, cycle, etc the sea is a wonderful outlet, but in January......? To a large degree, I can understand the sentiment "Why should the many pay for the needs of the few?" However, if those needs should then manifest themselves as major health issues in later life, it is the community at large that foots the bill anyhow. I personally would be prepared to pay a yearly membership fee to keep moving and stay fit. If not, I will probably go away for much of the Winter months. That's not begging for the sympathy vote either, Nige, just a bald stmt of fact. Love ya.
The powers that be could always move the states workers and equipment from butes to fort Groznez along side their workers ,thus freeing up the building on butes, which with a little planning and thought could possibly serve as a smaller sports centre and maybe more economical and realistic to run , you would also have access to the playing field ,a car park and swing park ,it would also remove heavy goods vehicles returning to the butes at lunch and T time ?
Matt Birmingham has a good idea on this: Build a combined sports centre near the footy pitch, include the boat, golf, tennis, shooting all in one building with a full size & depth swimming pool. Genius. Add in an area for the playgroup and youth club, and you free up the white elephant that is the Butes Centre too!
The combined rents from leasing all the old building that would be freed up would pay for the running of that all in one site.
Far too sensible. And rejected about 5 years ago when I suggested it as an alternative site.
Even the Land Use Plan inspector agreed, when the idea was discussed with him. But to no avail and we are no further forward.
But a pool etc is not financially viable unless it is combined with another development - such as Tourgis. But we keep making the same mistakes, and never seem to learn.
Will we learn from this blog? Be nice to think so.
As I remember there were no specific objections - just not interested. I raised it during a discussion with the Land Use Plan inspector on the proposed site of the Leisure Centre, to which I objected. I proposed this as a better alternative, and he seemed to agree. But the proposers were not interested. Now that those original plans have failed, as expected, maybe sense will prevail. Or have they found another secret site?
Another idea at the time was to improve the pool at the school, but that was shot down by the education authority in guernsey.
The Community Swimming Pool and Gym project is definitely not dead - it's thriving and getting closer to fruition. The latest plan - at the site of the shallow outdoor pool at the school and in partnership with Guernsey Education Department - is a scaled down, affordable scheme that will not place any burden on the island. If you think that the Alderney community don't want a pool and gym, have a look at the remarks on the petition at the site www.swimalderney.org
The school are having to cut 3 teachers as part of the fiscal plan but can find the money to help with a project that is wanted mainly by the retired and the more recent arrivals?
We're just asking Guernsey Dept of Education to contribute the same annual amount that they pay to run the shallow outdoor pool (about £12,000 p.a.), no capital contribution, and they get a 25m. indoor heated pool and gym instead of an outdoor paddling pool. In their words "it's a no-brainer"
After you've signed the petition saying that you are in favor of a pool and gym, surely the next question should have been, "How much are you prepared to pay for a swim, or membership?" We can all say "yes" to something, but I think you'll find it's a completely different story when you ask people to dip into their pockets and pay. I would dearly love a Ferrari, but I drive a white van!
Unfortunately Nigel, Ferraris cost more than £3, which is the projected single entry fee for an adult. There will be reductions for kids etc., and this cost goes down to about a pound per visit for an annual adult member visiting every day.
The amount we're asking the Ald States to contribute is £12,500 p.a. indexed to match Guernsey's. Don't you agree that is a good use of taxpayers' money for our kids, elderly and handicapped?
I'll happily sit down with any disbelievers to show the figures and calculations. Cloud cuckoo land is not my territory.
If the facility is operated as a members only club (as fitness clubs and hotels do, and we can still have daily members), there is no legal requirement for lifeguards. However, we will endeavour to have at least one volunteer lifeguard per session. If we decide to operate as a public swimming pool then we will need to provide one lifeguard on duty during all public session.
There are no shortage of volunteers for this attractive position (perhaps anonymous would like to enhance his/her attractiveness with a lifeguard outfit?). The school will provide their own trained teacher lifeguards for their own sessions.
We have therefore budgeted just £1000 per year for lifeguard training, none for wages.
Apart from Saw Point, few of you seem to understand the value of location, location, location. Whether supportive of a pool facility or not, this project will fail because of the proposed location. Get rid of all that States xxxx on the Butes and the pool would enjoy the space, views, car parking, cafes and facilities. The pool should be a part of the community for locals AND visitors alike, I bet the budget presumes that. Who's going to go down a hill, out of town, in the dark to have a swim? Dream on. PS - how come the States didn't accept the Sailing Club's offer to go halves or thereabouts on a new harbour office / clubhouse? Half the money, twice the facility. Still, you get what you vote for in Alderney I suppose.
Patronising opening sentence. Anyone who has been here more than two weeks and having half a brain knows full well that the best place for this doomed venture is on Butes. Using the same half a brain just stops us from going on about it - never going to happen where we all know is best.
Thank God our States saw this big white elephant coming. Let the people who want this dead duck to fund it themselves, that way they get to keep ALL the profit!
ReplyDeleteNigel,
DeleteLooks like you and Lady Gaga have put on some extra weight.
Perhaps the sports centre coud help you...
From one Fatty to another. All a sports centre would do is help me (and every other tax payer) lose money, not weight, and unlike Lady Gaga I can't afford it. I rather spend my money on steaks and I don't mean to make a dress with! Also, your sign off name implies that you may need this facility more than me.
DeleteNigel a place for locals to do sport is a human right like any other, its a great shame that you think that the Alderney native should not have the same entitlement as enjoyed by the Guernsey native, keep paying your taxes as its good you love paying for sports facilities for the kids of Guernsey natives while depriving your own Islands kids future.
ReplyDeleteWhoever you are... show me that you are a true blue?! For your information it costs the Bailiwick taxpayer between £800k-£1m a year to keep Beau Sejour open, why would we add to this already outrageous figure - you could always move to Guernsey!!!
ReplyDeleteI defo wanted a Sports Centre if at all possible but seeing how difficult it was to get going it never looked as if it was going to realise fruition which was a shame, I'm one that is used to going to a gym, now nearly 2 stone heavier I kind of feel one would be use!! :-)
ReplyDeleteWhen in UK I did find this here though http://archive.leisureprojects.net/greengyms.htm
A fraction of the cost to install and of course not earning any money for the island but for those of us that want to exercise it would help with health and well being, fundamental in todays lifestyle. It would also give visitors somewhere to physically enjoy our outdoor life. It was forwarded to Boyd Kelly, John Beaman, Bill Walden and Roy Burke to look at so hopefully now someone will pick up the baton to see if it is worthwhile. I got two lukewarm replies.
just checked my facts on this one-EVERY child and adult in Guernsey has access to a full size pool what you should be saying is are we second class citizens ?
ReplyDeleteIts prety obvious that Alderney cant afford a Beau sejour project but the fact that it losses £800 K per year(according to you ) and yet they keep it open, just goes to prove that other elected states values a healthy society as the quid pro quo is they save several million a year in health costs and just maybe a teenage boredom threshold and BTW they had several entrants in the Olympics would love to see an Alderney man at the Olympics. Did you know that the average cyclist lives 5 years longer than a non cyclist ? it can releive stress and reduce blood presure (Nigel you might want to look into this one)
ReplyDeleteThanks for your advice Anonymous 10 August. Is this a male only pool? The way I prefer to relieve stress is writing this blog, and it doesn't cost the tax payer a penny! £800K per year is a well documented figure if you"d only care to lift your swimming goggles for a moment you would know where to look.
Deleteit would be nice to have a leisure centre, like many other things, but we cannot afford it. Neither the capital cost, nor the running cost. Not enough people would use it to make it affordable.
ReplyDeleteBut the island offfers many othr forms of exercise, and lots of space. Anyonwe can lose weight by eating less, and taking brisk walks. I lost 3 stones doing just that 10 years ago, and it hasnt come back.
I think the answer to a leisure centre, which could be an attraction for visitors, would be to incorporate it within a Timeshare complex at Tourgis. With local and visitor membership available.
Another sensible idea would be to build an open-air pool alongside the beach side of the Quay.
Fed by the sea at full tide and then, as the tide goes out, the pool stays full.
no female swimmers can swim during Pub opening hours as that way the male swimmers are not there with their beer goggles on.
ReplyDeleteLast time I looked there were opportunities for people to participate in just about every sport. To name but a few of those available - football, tennis, table tennis, cricket, keep fit classes, KFA, line dancing, golf, karate, badminton, squash and so on. All have no bearing on the tax payer and are all enjoyed by those who wish to play their particular game. People move here for the unique qualities offered by the place, not to expect a sports centre that will offer an oversized bath and a bowling alley in exchange for a massive financial headache.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note - does the poster above own a car, or does he cycle everywhere?
no he does not and he does not play tennis either but every time he goes past the tennis club in the morning and see 30-50 local kids playing tennis he is grateful that some forward thinking individuals bothered to build it and every time he picks up the journal and sees the smiling faces of young Alderney boxers with their victories (often lads that might have strayed towards less constructive pursuits) he is grateful that Fred and Midge and Rosie and others put in the facilities and dedicated their time to make the club what it is, a furthur benefit to the Island we can go on to the football club, and golf club etc and its great contribution to Island life for the Youth if you really want this Island to remain a retirement home well lets keep focused on that -they have some of the best facilities in the Bailwick . but what about the future aspirations of the kids of this Island or are they just not as important. Boxing football etc are for the young mainly but swimming includes all age groups
ReplyDeleteLack of a sports centre is not the reason that this island "remains a retirement home". Lack of future employment is the reason the kids leave at 16. Building a swimming pool will not keep them here no matter how much you think we need one.
DeleteThe theme for the Olympics was about inspiring the youth and every single person who gives their time on the island does their bit in helping to make a change with these kids and are to be applauded. Not producing an Olympic swimmer is not the end of the world.
I get the impression that those who shouted loudest for a pool are quite possibly those with more than average spare time looking for ways to fill their days, but differing opinions are what lead to debate.
You want a swimming pool - I don't. It's not because I'm being contrary, but because I believe investment would be better placed elsewhere.
You have to admire the sport centres campaigners, they sure have a lot of stamina (so why the need for a centre?) But just how will the half a dozen or so people who want to use it find it, this new undisclosed site? We natives have a canny way of finding things, this is like waving a red flag to a bull. I can already hear the jungle drums beating.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr Blood for your forthright email,i understand your point of view fully, but i think you are mistaken, to create employment you either need to increase the size of the public sector OR attract wealth creators(entrepreneurs) to the Island to create new businesses and new employment,and attract a new bunch of second home owners/settlers to the Island, i can tell you of several professional families that left the Island because of the lack of facilities for their kids in the harsh winter months,i am not saying this is the only reason why wealth creators/job creators are not moving here but it is one of them ,you build the infa structure and market it, they will come, and by the way if i am wrong in this i am sure the visitors kids and the whole local population will not complain at having a great facility.I also believe the naysayers regarding the center are just more vociferous and outspoken than the supporters, on a lighter note if a few people did not have too much time on their hands this blog would not exist!
ReplyDeleteHow about boosting the private sector by sacking 95% of States workers, putting all States work out to tender, and have the local companies who pick up the work take on extra staff to enable them to honour the contract?
DeleteAt least the new employers will have some idea of how to motivate their newly acquired staff. Then, with less States employees we could do away with half the civil servants currently employed, freeing up more money.
Might be a bit of a radical idea and I haven't spent more than 2 minutes thinking it through but I'm sure you get my gist.
But it does and thanks to you Anonymous 14 August it appears to be growing daily. Just may be it will go feral....or something!!!
ReplyDeleteThe people of Alderney have spoken, the States have spoken, the banks have spoken, the Guernsey board of education have spoken, the Guernsey board of health have spoken. Just what part of NO don't you understand, Anonymous 14 August? Fund it yourselves or forget it.
ReplyDeleteTurn one of the churches into a sports centre. Be the right size no need for a swimming pool just a good gym a lot of people I see going to church would benefit from going there if it was a gym.
DeleteActually, regular swimming prolongs the HEALTHY lifespan of the average person by 7 - 10 years. For community members no longer able to run, cycle, etc the sea is a wonderful outlet, but in January......?
ReplyDeleteTo a large degree, I can understand the sentiment "Why should the many pay for the needs of the few?" However, if those needs should then manifest themselves as major health issues in later life, it is the community at large that foots the bill anyhow.
I personally would be prepared to pay a yearly membership fee to keep moving and stay fit. If not, I will probably go away for much of the Winter months. That's not begging for the sympathy vote either, Nige, just a bald stmt of fact. Love ya.
The powers that be could always move the states workers and equipment from butes to fort Groznez along side their workers ,thus freeing up the building on butes, which with a little planning and thought could possibly serve as a smaller sports centre and maybe more economical and realistic to run , you would also have access to the playing field ,a car park and swing park ,it would also remove heavy goods vehicles returning to the butes at lunch and T time ?
ReplyDeleteMatt Birmingham has a good idea on this: Build a combined sports centre near the footy pitch, include the boat, golf, tennis, shooting all in one building with a full size & depth swimming pool. Genius. Add in an area for the playgroup and youth club, and you free up the white elephant that is the Butes Centre too!
ReplyDeleteThe combined rents from leasing all the old building that would be freed up would pay for the running of that all in one site.
Far too sensible. And rejected about 5 years ago when I suggested it as an alternative site.
ReplyDeleteEven the Land Use Plan inspector agreed, when the idea was discussed with him. But to no avail and we are no further forward.
But a pool etc is not financially viable unless it is combined with another development - such as Tourgis. But we keep making the same mistakes, and never seem to learn.
Will we learn from this blog? Be nice to think so.
Hopefully!
DeleteWhat were the objections 5 years ago?
As I remember there were no specific objections - just not interested. I raised it during a discussion with the Land Use Plan inspector on the proposed site of the Leisure Centre, to which I objected. I proposed this as a better alternative, and he seemed to agree. But the proposers were not interested. Now that those original plans have failed, as expected, maybe sense will prevail. Or have they found another secret site?
DeleteAnother idea at the time was to improve the pool at the school, but that was shot down by the education authority in guernsey.
The Community Swimming Pool and Gym project is definitely not dead - it's thriving and getting closer to fruition. The latest plan - at the site of the shallow outdoor pool at the school and in partnership with Guernsey Education Department - is a scaled down, affordable scheme that will not place any burden on the island. If you think that the Alderney community don't want a pool and gym, have a look at the remarks on the petition at the site www.swimalderney.org
ReplyDeleteThe school are having to cut 3 teachers as part of the fiscal plan but can find the money to help with a project that is wanted mainly by the retired and the more recent arrivals?
ReplyDeleteSomething stinks.
No smells involved
DeleteWe're just asking Guernsey Dept of Education to contribute the same annual amount that they pay to run the shallow outdoor pool (about £12,000 p.a.), no capital contribution, and they get a 25m. indoor heated pool and gym instead of an outdoor paddling pool. In their words "it's a no-brainer"
After you've signed the petition saying that you are in favor of a pool and gym, surely the next question should have been, "How much are you prepared to pay for a swim, or membership?" We can all say "yes" to something, but I think you'll find it's a completely different story when you ask people to dip into their pockets and pay. I would dearly love a Ferrari, but I drive a white van!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately Nigel, Ferraris cost more than £3, which is the projected single entry fee for an adult. There will be reductions for kids etc., and this cost goes down to about a pound per visit for an annual adult member visiting every day.
DeleteThe amount we're asking the Ald States to contribute is £12,500 p.a. indexed to match Guernsey's. Don't you agree that is a good use of taxpayers' money for our kids, elderly and handicapped?
I'll happily sit down with any disbelievers to show the figures and calculations. Cloud cuckoo land is not my territory.
How many lifeguards are you going to need, and how much has been budgeted for them?
ReplyDeleteGood question, anonymous
DeleteIf the facility is operated as a members only club (as fitness clubs and hotels do, and we can still have daily members), there is no legal requirement for lifeguards. However, we will endeavour to have at least one volunteer lifeguard per session. If we decide to operate as a public swimming pool then we will need to provide one lifeguard on duty during all public session.
There are no shortage of volunteers for this attractive position (perhaps anonymous would like to enhance his/her attractiveness with a lifeguard outfit?). The school will provide their own trained teacher lifeguards for their own sessions.
We have therefore budgeted just £1000 per year for lifeguard training, none for wages.
Apart from Saw Point, few of you seem to understand the value of location, location, location. Whether supportive of a pool facility or not, this project will fail because of the proposed location. Get rid of all that States xxxx on the Butes and the pool would enjoy the space, views, car parking, cafes and facilities. The pool should be a part of the community for locals AND visitors alike, I bet the budget presumes that. Who's going to go down a hill, out of town, in the dark to have a swim? Dream on. PS - how come the States didn't accept the Sailing Club's offer to go halves or thereabouts on a new harbour office / clubhouse? Half the money, twice the facility. Still, you get what you vote for in Alderney I suppose.
ReplyDeletePatronising opening sentence.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who has been here more than two weeks and having half a brain knows full well that the best place for this doomed venture is on Butes.
Using the same half a brain just stops us from going on about it - never going to happen where we all know is best.